00:00:00:00 - 00:01:01:16 Unknown Good morning everyone. Dear colleagues and friends, and welcome to our ELSI Dialogues webinar. My name is Ilaria Colussi and I am a data protection specialist for BBMRI-ERIC and I will be moderating this session. Today we are going to be exploring artificial intelligence in Southeastern Asia considering the example of the Indonesian National Artificial Intelligence Strategy on Ethics and policy. Before we start, I would like to briefly give some background about BBMRI-ERIC which stands for the Biobanking and Biomolecular Resources Research Infrastructure, European Research Infrastructure Consortium, which has the scope to facilitate access to sample and data collections across Europe to advance biomedical research for the benefit of the European citizens. 00:01:01:18 - 00:01:44:08 Unknown To reach this goal, BBMRI-ERIC relies on a network of national nodes in the member countries, as well as a team of interdisciplinary experts from medicine, social science, ethics, law, I.T, quality management, patient communities and industry partners. The BBMRI-ERIC Elsi Services and Research provides support on ethical, legal and societal issues. Operating in partnership with a network of experts from academia and practice from across both our national nodes and project partners, alongside three key cornerstones which are research, service and training. 00:01:44:09 - 00:02:22:23 Unknown This webinar today is possible thanks to funding from the European Union's Horizon Europe Research and Innovation Project, specifically, it is supported by the canSERV Project that focuses on providing cutting edge cancer research services across Europe. Visit the website. canSERV.eu Before diving into Southeastern Asia experience on artificial intelligence. I am going to provide the short view on the European Union's approach to AI from the ethical viewpoint, because I think that it can offer interesting comparative elements for our discussion. 00:02:23:01 - 00:02:55:06 Unknown On 8th April 2019, the High level expert Group on Artificial Intelligence, appointed by the European Commission and mandated with the drafting of two deliverables, namely AI Ethics Guidelines and Policy and Investment Recommendations, presented a central document which is the Ethics Guidelines for Trustworthy Artificial Intelligence. The central notion of this document is that AI systems need to be human centric, which means that they should serve humanity and the common good. 00:02:55:08 - 00:03:21:01 Unknown Then it is needed to maximize the benefits of AI systems, while at the same time preventing and minimizing the risks. And then there is a central concept that is the notion of trustworthy AI as foundational ambition. And indeed the notion of trust and trustworthiness, is really central for the European Union's approach to artificial intelligence. But what does a trustworthy AI mean? 00:03:21:03 - 00:03:50:15 Unknown It means that AI should be lawful. So it means that it should comply with all applicable laws and regulations. Ethical. So it should adhere to ethical principles and values and robust from both the technical and social perspective. And these three components should work in harmony with regards to the ethical principles. We can say that the European Union, approach is based on fundamental rights. 00:03:50:17 - 00:04:21:13 Unknown So, there are four ethical principles that should inform artificial intelligence, which are the respect for human autonomy and dignity. And so AI should be developed in a manner that respects humans physical and mental integrity, the sense of identity and the essential needs. Then the second, ethical principle is the prevention of harm, which means to ensure the mitigation of risks and the avoidance of any kind of unjustified surveillance or manipulation. 00:04:21:15 - 00:04:53:03 Unknown The third principle is fairness, which means an equal distribution of both benefits and costs, and the avoidance of any kind of unfair bias, discrimination and stigmatization. And then the fourth principle is the explicability principle, which means that the processes that inform I should be transparent, openly communicated, and the decisions to the extent that is possible should be explainable to those directly and indirectly affected. 00:04:53:05 - 00:05:23:08 Unknown Then this European Union's approach details also seven requirements for trustworthy AI. So there are seven elements that should be present in a trustworthy AI that are, first of all, the human agency and oversight. So AI should empower people and there should be some approaches like human in the loop or human in command to oversight the mechanisms, that inform the working of AI. 00:05:23:10 - 00:05:55:02 Unknown Then there should be technical robustness and safety. Privacy and data governance should be, respected. So it is needed to have data integrity and to respect privacy transparency, which is linked to, traceability, explainability. Then there is diversity and fairness. So to avoid any kind of, bias and discrimination, then AI should be sustainable, environmentally friendly and considerate of societal impact. 00:05:55:02 - 00:06:26:05 Unknown and accountability, which means, to be able to explain the mechanisms of working. And then there should be also auditability and accessible redress. So these are, the seven requirements for having a trustworthy AI and the high level expert group also prepare an assessment list, for trustworthy AI, which translated into practice this ethical guidelines. I dealt here with the ethical approach. 00:06:26:07 - 00:06:52:23 Unknown I will not go into detail. As regards the legal framework, but I think it's worth mentioning at least, very quickly the AI asked because this is the world's first law on artificial intelligence, and it is based on this notion of trustworthy AI. It has entered into force in August 2024, after three years of negotiations between the institutions at the European Union level. 00:06:53:01 - 00:07:19:23 Unknown And the main thing to be remembered about this act is that it is based on the analysis of risk. And so it is based on a risk assessment approach which divides AI applications into four categories. There are those that entail minimal or no risk, and they are not affected by this act. Those that entail a limited risk, like chat bots, for example. 00:07:19:23 - 00:07:51:16 Unknown And for these kind of applications, there is there are transparency obligations for the AI developers and employers. And so to inform the users about the content generated by AI, then there are high risks applications such as the ones used in a health care field, for example, diagnosis or, biometric identification. And here there are strict requirements and obligations like transparency, human supervision, testing and so on. 00:07:51:19 - 00:08:22:08 Unknown And then there are those that are prohibited and banned from used in the EU, which entail unacceptable risks and so, these are, for example, the ones that include, cognitive behavioral manipulation, or social scoring or a facial recognition by a law enforcement authority in public spaces, with some limited exceptions. These were just a few words on the European Union approach, which can help understanding. 00:08:22:10 - 00:08:48:04 Unknown And now the Southeast and Asian approach, which is a bit different. But now we have an excellent speaker that will introduce us to this topic, and we have the honor and pleasure to host here Mrs Thilma Komaling, who is a government policy and sustainable program consultant, and she's among the author of the Indonesian Artificial Intelligence Strategy. 00:08:48:06 - 00:09:18:17 Unknown She has a master's degree in public policy and is currently a strategic lead and advisor at the Indonesia Tuna Consortium. She has a policy expertise with more than 20 years of experience in development sector and private sector, and the strong professional history in program management. So she will now introduce us to how, artificial intelligence is shaping, the health and health care field in Southeast Asia. 00:09:18:23 - 00:09:42:04 Unknown And she will also explain us the Indonesian ethics approach to AI, which, maybe can have some points in common with the European approach or some differences. We will we will see. So, Thilma, thank you so much for being with us today. It's a real pleasure to have you here. I give you the floor. All right. Thank you so much for the kind introduction Ilaria. 00:09:42:06 - 00:10:10:03 Unknown And also, some background on the AI ethics and policy in the EU Yes. As I mentioned, my name is Thilma Komaling It is a privilege and honor for me to be speaking today. On the the work that, we have been doing. But before. I just want to, because I'm connecting now from Jakarta, the capital city of Indonesia, just to give an overview of what is Indonesia so bit about Indonesia. 00:10:10:03 - 00:10:32:22 Unknown I don't want to give you facts and figures because I think it's going to be quite boring. But just to give you an overview on how large our country is, basically we are in the same size of, Atlantic Ocean. So if you travel from the west point of Indonesia to to the east side, it will take 7 to 9 hours. 00:10:33:00 - 00:11:06:18 Unknown And we are as you seen here, we are archipelagic states. So Indonesia has 7508 islands. And you will also see the diversity there, the diversity of, biodiversity there. We have flowers, ponds, mammals, reptiles, fish, birds and amphibia. And we are in politically, we have 38 provinces right now, and we have 1340 tribes, and we spoke 718 languages. 00:11:06:20 - 00:11:34:20 Unknown So that's how diverse our country is. And I'm sure, there's a lot also, to be shared. But I think just to give you an overview on how we can then understand how Indonesia then choose the, the national principle as the basic of, the AI ethics. So just an outlook to, AI outlook in Southeast Asia, Southeast Asia is formed into, a formal entity. 00:11:34:21 - 00:12:06:10 Unknown called ASEAN. Its the association of Southeast Asian nation. But in AI currently, we see Singapore is the leading one. It started in 2019 for their, national AI strategy and then following to Indonesia in 2020 and also Malaysia for roadmap, although they have different names, but basically like the whole kind of concept are mostly are the same. And the Philippines also coming following into 2021 Vietnam. 00:12:06:10 - 00:12:33:17 Unknown And the latest one is Thailand. And across the, I think three years of development, there's a lot of growing and also discussion around Southeast Asia. That's why then the ASEAN issued the Asian Guide on AI Governance and Ethics. You can also see here, there's a lot of principles that has been adopted to promote trust and ethical, amongst the development of AI systems. 00:12:33:17 - 00:12:58:20 Unknown So this guidelines is is not bounded. So this is a guideline. So then most of the most of the developer or the government that is, working in AI governing AI knows exactly like what's in in regional what we believe on. And just to give an example, recently I just came from Thailand to present about the ethics, about 2 to 5 different countries. 00:12:58:20 - 00:13:27:00 Unknown And one thing that I think quite interesting to share is in Malaysia, Malaysia also developed their AI ethics and guidelines on the basic of their Ruku Negara, meaning the the nation belief system. And if you see here, there are a couple of points and principles, almost the same motivation. I was here later, but there's, a movement going on in, in Malaysia, which is called AI Untuk Rakyat. 00:13:27:01 - 00:13:49:18 Unknown This is, AI for the citizens. That means that this is a platform for the, for the citizens to have an innovation on how AI can provide as a tool, to provide benefits to, to the, the work life balance and also healthcare system and all of the things that can be beneficial to the social, impact of Malaysia. 00:13:49:20 - 00:14:18:12 Unknown So, in Asian Guide on the AI Governance and Ethics, there are five different points, which is transparency and explainability. I think I see it also in EU fairness and equity and security and safety, human centricity and privacy and data governance. So more or less is a couple of points that are similar. Coming into Indonesia. So this is the to say, like the visualization of Indonesia's AI strategy. 00:14:18:13 - 00:14:44:10 Unknown Currently, we are on the 70th year, 79, I suppose, of, independence. So we are aiming to go towards, to 100 years of Indonesian, independence. So on that note, then our group that time, we tried to come up with a system on how then we see, AI can benefit as, as, as a country, as a nation. 00:14:44:12 - 00:15:24:10 Unknown So we put health services first and then bureaucratic reform, education, research, food security, mobility and smart cities. It's not it's not in layer. So it's in the same layer. But we think we we came to a, agreement that health services is number one. I'm going to give you a couple of, also examples or practical, or a couple of innovations and initiatives in Indonesia later on in the presentation so that you see on how, when it come to practice for the citizens of Indonesia. what's interesting about their process was that time our group was starting before the pandemic. 00:15:24:15 - 00:15:48:01 Unknown And that time, we already put on the, data privacy law, but it has been years by years. It has been kind of stuck in the parliament. So we started this movement of, coming together as quadruple helix, which is we have a representative from the private sector. We have representatives from the government, academia, and also from the society. 00:15:48:02 - 00:16:15:02 Unknown We come together and then we start with this, Indonesia AI strategy. Not, as I should tell you. This is this which is not a task from the government. So this is purely from the an initiative from the, from from the citizen. And if you see there on the on the date it was launched in August 2020, but the data privacy law is enacted in September 2022. 00:16:15:04 - 00:16:37:19 Unknown So that's kind of like a chicken and egg process that time. But we're glad that it's over. Now. We see there's a lot of gaps and also potentials of policy being made, but I think it's going to be more on the, application level. But if you see on the priorities, then there also are focus areas, which is at industrial research and innovations. 00:16:37:21 - 00:17:10:08 Unknown So this is the the main innovation is to develop, research ecosystem and artificial intelligence innovation platform in order to accelerate bureaucratic and industry reform that time. Four years ago, when we start coming together and think about on how we can build this, our only challenges is how then the guide, you know, the the policy is not going to slow down innovation because we know AI comes also the high drive is from the, the companies, the private sectors. 00:17:10:10 - 00:17:33:11 Unknown That's why then we put industrial research and innovation. So we also do have two pillars on top of it. Under it, which is the infrastructure and data and also the talent development. All of these are all, the elements that need to go in parallel and on baseline of it is the ethics and policy. So I just show you this is the team that I will, that we worked with. 00:17:33:13 - 00:17:59:17 Unknown And also, just to give you an overview, this is the kind of detailing on how then AI Indonesia can help to, to harness this sustainable economic growth and enhance public services and improve quality of life. Then these all are in alignment of national development goals on the 2045 vision to become a global digital hub in Southeast Asia. 00:17:59:18 - 00:18:28:01 Unknown So it's quite interesting when, I was asked to to speak on the Southeast Asia, it's very related and are really linked to one another. The key priorities, in Indonesia, strategies are for economic growth, public services and governance, talent development, research and ethical AI and regulation. One interesting thing that I can share here without putting in the presentation, is about that time when we start doing the Indonesian strategy. 00:18:28:03 - 00:18:53:19 Unknown The president of Indonesia has already put up a speech, a couple of speech that mentioned AI to change the the, it is the the lower rank of government officials. So there's a lot of, you know, dialog, there's a lot of debates, going on in the media and also on what is AI and how do we, come across AI, how do we approach, do we trust them? 00:18:53:19 - 00:19:16:03 Unknown Is it is it going to change, you know, the the jobs of people? That's that's kind of, the challenge that we try to kind of, put up a justification or like, more or more like, solution that this is a tool for, digital society. So coming to the, the central of, the talk. 00:19:16:09 - 00:19:40:09 Unknown So, as I, as I mentioned, at the ethics of Indonesia, AI is on Pancasila, so Pancasila came from two words with this Panca means five and sila is points. So this is the five points that the Indonesia was born with. So we have these five principles that we thought from very, very early age. 00:19:40:11 - 00:20:04:00 Unknown We just believe in one God, just and civilized humanity. The United Indonesia. And in number four is quite long. But this on the democracy, and also the representatives of of the people and number five is on social justice. So our team that time tried to make sure that the points or the core is not something new. 00:20:04:02 - 00:20:46:05 Unknown We need something very close to to the heart of the people of Indonesia, because this is something that needs to be originally from, from Indonesia. What we believe and what we want to carry forward as a nation. So then it comes, the, the nine point AI ethics core, which is inclusivity, humanity, security, accessibility and nondiscrimination, transparency. And and also on the fifth point, we put social justice on five different points, which is transparency, credibility and accountability, data privacy and sustainable impact in environment and intellectual property. 00:20:46:05 - 00:21:13:11 Unknown In one point of social justice. So this whole idea we found quite effective for the for the, the, the people of Indonesia to understand about the AI, not worrying about AI, but trying to master AI for them to to make sure that their, their life is, is improving. And also they can also, maximize and optimizing the the use of AI for their economic growth. 00:21:13:13 - 00:21:46:05 Unknown On top of that, it has been an ongoing kind of process, and we want to make sure the Indonesian AI strategy has the to say the political or the policy instrument in place. One of it that we have already been launched is the circular letter from the Ministry of Communication and Informatics. And in 2023 on this four points on the central notion of AI ethics, which is one AI cannot be a detriment of policies or make decisions related to humans. 00:21:46:07 - 00:22:24:03 Unknown And second, AI adopting the values equality, justice and peace for greater good. Number three is need to consider carefully on the social and environmental impact, aiming for sustainability and social welfare. And number four is on the intellectual property data privacy, credibility and accountability in accordance to the law and order. So this this is then how then we can put in place the, I should say, the, the regulation for trying to safeguard the digital, society and also making sure that the innovators have room to grow. 00:22:24:05 - 00:22:57:05 Unknown And as I promised, this is a couple of initiatives in Indonesia related to the healthcare. We have Halodoc which is, an application, a mobile application that uses AI, and it is a digital app that connects patients with doctors, pharmacies and lab services. And this app, how patients arrange appointments, medicine, benefits and tests. So at the beginning of the talk, I mentioned that Indonesia is really it's huge is very large. 00:22:57:05 - 00:23:26:01 Unknown So, it's it's quite impossible for the government alone to kind of reach and the remote islands and also to provide health care. So that's why then this is can it has been a very easy and also efficient way on how to, to make sure that the, the people have access to advices to doctors and also to, lab services and pharmacies, and they also use AI, which is the human centered AI. 00:23:26:03 - 00:23:51:21 Unknown This is for the patient and also the NLP on in Bahasa Indonesia to make sure to rank and provide insight as well as how they write the services they give to the the user, and also for the mentoring and feedback. What's interesting about this app is that it connects the, the doctors, doctors in the city, mainly in the city and also the patient with this living in, you know, in the mountains and also on remote islands. 00:23:51:23 - 00:24:20:13 Unknown And that's how that it kind of connects. So there are three initiatives here. Halodoc is a private owned. So this is company that that started and it has been widely used until now. And the second one is PeduliLindungi. If you see on the chronological timing when, when the Indonesia started, this first started and also the, data privacy, it comes right before the pandemic. 00:24:20:15 - 00:24:58:01 Unknown So we then the pandemic this app is the the the only way how we can travel. So if you want to travel for one another, you have to fill in the PeduliLindungi, the, the way that it, do is to, to make sure that there is a traceability of the travelers and making sure that also there's the density is also being kind of measured that this has been widely used, and it has been proven to be quite effective for the government, not only for the, for the central government, but also on the provincial level for them to understand, like how bad is the condition and what is like, do they 00:24:58:01 - 00:25:20:06 Unknown need to have, like an open closure because that time during the pandemic, the open closure is the most effective way, and the data are being the data that has been used to analyze is coming from the PeduliLindungi And it's a very simple ones. It's basically on your, on your mobile phone and you can just text there where you're going, where you come from, and also your condition. 00:25:20:08 - 00:25:48:04 Unknown And you also there's also, like a permission card also in the app that you can can travel based on your tests. So currently PeduliLindungi it's not used anymore. But then it has transformed into another app called Satusehat. So satusehat is the current one that is driven by the needs of the Ministry of Health to provide health care for, health care services to to the people. 00:25:48:04 - 00:26:12:16 Unknown That is quite difficult to reach on this, based on the program of the government, it then integrated with 60% of health facilities in Indonesia has been an integrated system, so the public can know where the nearest healthcare center and also they can access their medical records through the system. And this, application also can be accessed, with your ID number. 00:26:12:18 - 00:26:38:15 Unknown So it kind of store your records and then now in, in that in the development, the use of AI will be optimized for the non-clinical health services. So this is to reach more people like mental health services like psychological. And this is also for the they also put like a future health index. That means the government also have a way on, making sure that they see their performance. 00:26:38:15 - 00:27:04:21 Unknown And so in reaching the people. So this is like the the overall application on, healthcare, I should say, is the question that it has changed how people, people behave in accessing healthcare. Yes, that's tremendously because right now, usually when you when you're sick, you need to go to the nearest healthcare center, and then you need to wait for the doctor appointment. 00:27:04:21 - 00:27:32:08 Unknown And sometimes it takes a couple of days. But with Halodoc and also with Satusehat you can just see whatever on reach and who ever available to whom ever online, the doctors. And then you can ask and you can also, take a picture of your condition, especially for skin condition. And then like there's a team of doctors, they can evaluate and see this approximately not a full diagnosis but approximate what's the disease. 00:27:32:08 - 00:27:56:16 Unknown And also there are a couple of recommendation of, medicines to get. So yeah, that's about it. But I can share. But in conclusion, with such a diversity, Indonesia and Southeast Asia, I see, need to first optimize the use of AI in natural resource management. If you see Indonesia to has been through a lot of biodiversity loss. 00:27:56:18 - 00:28:21:18 Unknown And also, it also relates to the livelihood of the people. So I really think this is a gap that no one's, not no one, like few innovators in the country, also in the region, kind of see and try to make use of it. And the second one, because there's a lot of diversity, the dialects and languages, we we spoke 1000 languages basically across the country. 00:28:21:23 - 00:28:55:22 Unknown So I think I can also preserve the cultures, language and values, making sure that the future generation can know what it's like to be Indonesian, not relying on, you know, your, your, parents and grandparents who know about the values of, the nation. But also this is something that we can which I think also in the dialog when we have the other countries such as Thailand, Philippines and Vietnam and Malaysia, they are also have the same necessity of trying to preserve this culture through AI. 00:28:56:00 - 00:29:19:10 Unknown And number three is the most challenging. One is the digital protection for the people. I think the education level also understanding the awareness about data security is not widely understood. So that's why then it's quite a large problem to give away to the government to to tackle. So it's also on the digital society like what I am working also working in Indonesian AI society. 00:29:19:10 - 00:29:52:13 Unknown This is one thing that we are trying to promote and also trying to put the awareness on. Also to the people. That's about it. Terima Kasih Thank you so much. Thank you so much, for this, food for thought that you've provided and the the excellent points that you you have raised. I think that it was very, very interesting for us to to see how some principles are shared with the European Union approach, because you mentioned human as a supervisor, so human in the loop or human oversight. 00:29:52:15 - 00:30:24:06 Unknown What are the notions of technical, robustness, security, transparency, diversity? No, on discrimination, accountability. So all these principles are really in common. And this is this is great because it means that we have a common understanding and the shared values. But what I find very interesting for the Indonesian approach is how you tried to, integrate, Pancasila, the ethical values, of your, of ethical and legal system with this new, technology. 00:30:24:10 - 00:30:54:11 Unknown So, how you tried to integrate, traditional values also with the in modern modernity. And, I find it very interesting how you shape this approach also for reaching the people and, for making artificial intelligence available or, for trying to avoid fears to reach, to reach really in a communication manner, the people and the different stakeholders. 00:30:54:13 - 00:31:23:13 Unknown So I find that, it was a very, very useful and interesting for us. Also to to understand how AI is changing healthcare, in southeast Indonesia, not not in trying to approach the people and trying to reduce the distances so that you mention because, Indonesia is so big. So of course, I mean, these are needed to, to try to reach diverse people and, to reduce also the distances there. 00:31:23:13 - 00:31:45:17 Unknown So really AI could offer many opportunities in this sense. And, it is it is also important to, to shape it in a manner that, that creates trust in the end, and public trust, which is also something that, that you shared. And I also appreciated the how you took into account in your strategy, the role of different stakeholders. 00:31:45:17 - 00:32:10:01 Unknown So you mentioned industries, you mentioned the talents, which is quite new, because, I mean, we always tend to forget this kind of aspect. But of course, the talent development is also something that I could promote. And this should be taken into account. And taking into account also the citizens that most of all and as a stakeholder. So I think that, it's an interesting that it's an interesting approach. 00:32:10:03 - 00:32:36:10 Unknown We will leave it a space, in a minute to the questions. And I would like to thank all the participants to this webinar. And they would like also to remind you that we regularly share papers and updates from our experts via BBMRI-ERIC newsletter, so you can sign up for this newsletter on our website, where you will also find some resources and services like the ELSI Knowledge Base or the ELSI helpdesk. 00:32:36:15 - 00:32:59:13 Unknown Our website is BBMRI-ERIC.eu. If you enjoyed this recording, do share it with interested friends and colleagues or you can leave also. a review or comment on whichever platform you tuned in via, and we will wait for you for the next episode of this ELSI dialogues and you can also follow us on our social platforms. 00:32:59:13 - 00:33:06:06 Unknown So thank you for attending and see you next time. 00:33:06:08 - 00:33:18:06 Unknown